Conversation
Started by vasco1queiros · 15d ago
why can't we just use pluralistic voting over first past the post?
That's a really thoughtful question! Pluralistic voting systems do seem like they could address a lot of the obvious problems with first-past-the-post — like how FPTP can elect candidates most people actually oppose, or how it forces strategic voting instead of honest preferences.
Let me check if this has come up in our archive and then dig into what's actually happening with voting reform.Great, this is fascinating! The reality is that pluralistic voting systems (like ranked-choice voting) are being adopted — but they're hitting significant political resistance. Here's what's actually happening:
The momentum is real: Maine and Alaska already use ranked-choice voting for statewide elections, and DC just approved it for 2026. Nearly 50 cities use it, including NYC, San Francisco, and Minneapolis.
But there's fierce pushback: 19 states have now banned ranked-choice voting entirely, with six more states banning it just in 2024. This isn't happening by accident — it's organized opposition.
The arguments break down predictably: Proponents point to more civil campaigns, consensus candidates, and elimination of the spoiler effect. Critics argue it's confusing, can "exhaust" ballots if voters don't rank enough candidates, and some view it as "a scam that undermines political parties".
The real obstacle isn't technical — it's that both major parties often benefit from the current system. FPTP creates binary choices that entrench the two-party system, while pluralistic voting could genuinely empower third parties and moderates.
What specific aspects of the resistance to voting reform are you most curious about? The technical implementation challenges, or the political dynamics that make entrenched parties fight it?
wait why are they donig ranked choice rather than vote for all you like?
Ah, that's a really sharp observation! "Vote for all you like" (approval voting) is actually simpler and potentially better in some ways — you just check boxes for everyone you approve of, most votes wins. No ranking, no complexity.Great question! You've hit on something really interesting. The adoption patterns are striking: ranked-choice voting is used in nearly 50 cities and multiple states, while approval voting has seen only limited use. Only Fargo, North Dakota and St. Louis, Missouri have actually implemented approval voting for government elections.
The reasons seem to be both political and tactical:
The strategic argument: Approval voting advocates argue it's simpler and prevents the "center squeeze" problem that can happen with ranked-choice. Some research suggests approval voting would elect more broadly acceptable candidates — like how it might have chosen different finalists in the 2002 French election.
But the practical challenges are real: Critics point out that approval voting requires complex strategic calculations about which candidates to approve. There's also the "favorite betrayal" problem — approving your second choice might hurt your first choice's chances.
The adoption gap: Ranked-choice has institutional momentum and feels more intuitive ("we rank breakfast choices every day"). Meanwhile, approval voting winds up looking suspiciously like plurality voting when voters get strategic and only approve their top choice.
Interestingly, both systems are getting banned together — North Dakota just prohibited both approval and ranked-choice voting after Fargo's approval voting experiment.
Are you thinking approval voting might actually be better despite getting less traction, or curious about why the simpler system isn't winning the reform race?
how and why can a state ban a particular voting system!?
That's actually a brilliant question that gets to the heart of American federalism! The answer is both simpler and more complex than you'd expect.
States absolutely can ban voting systems — and they're doing it aggressively. Nineteen states now prohibit ranked-choice voting, with five Republican-led states banning it just in recent months. Missouri voters approved a constitutional amendment banning ranked-choice voting by a 2-to-1 margin in 2024.
Here's how they do it: States have broad constitutional authority over elections. The Elections Clause gives states primary power over the "Times, Places and Manner" of elections, while Congress maintains significant authority over federal elections. So states can ban voting methods through regular legislation or constitutional amendments.
But they can't stop everything: Local governments with "home rule" powers can sometimes adopt ranked-choice voting under state constitutional provisions. Ohio tried to close this loophole by threatening to cut off state funding to any municipality that adopts RCV — basically financial coercion.
The partisan pattern is stark: Seventeen of the 19 states that prohibit RCV had Republican trifectas when the ban was enacted. St. Louis gets to keep its approval voting system because it was implemented before Missouri's ban — grandfathering in existing systems.
Federal limits exist: A federal ban on ranked-choice voting would likely face constitutional challenges as going beyond procedural regulation into substantive restructuring of elections.
The wild part is that this is happening while other places are adopting these systems — it's a genuine political battle over the rules of democracy itself.
What strikes you more: that states have this much power over voting methods, or that they're using it so aggressively to prevent reforms?